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Thread: Preserving Quality of Life and Pay

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    Registered User EnvoyMecOffice's Avatar
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    Preserving Quality of Life and Pay


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    April 4, 2015

    Fellow Pilots-

    This week we learned that AAG will not attempt to entice the pilots of Envoy to remain on property via retention initiatives and instead will continue to lean solely upon the attractiveness of flowthrough. Your MEC leadership believes this is a mistake. Flowthrough may become attractive several years down the road when Envoy has shrunk and pilots can both upgrade faster and reach mainline faster, however that is not the present circumstance.

    Further, our recent domicile closures are upending pilots’ lives and causing them to re-examine the personal calculus of whether it’s better to maintain their position on our seniority list and commute halfway across the country or start over at a new carrier that features growth or is geographically desirable.

    Having said this, the leadership of Envoy management seems to recognize the value of our pilot corps and has requested an audience with ALPA to discuss ways to mitigate some of the harm being caused by base closures and shifting equipment. This week your negotiators met with management to receive concepts that -- while clearly saving the company time, headcount and money -- also preserves quality of life and pay for our membership.

    Some of the marquee concepts are:
    • CRJ satellite base in DFW
    • Allowing “overstaffed” DCE volunteers to “TDY” to bottom of OFE list
    • Allow prolonged TDY from JFK ahead of base closure
    • Pay protecting displaced Captains
    • Providing A-pass travel to displaced pilots
    • Company hotels for displaced pilots who commute before or after trip

    Your Association listened to the Company’s ideas and is preparing a response. We are seeking your input on the content of that response, and suggestions for other pilot-friendly ideas to present to management. We are extremely sensitive to the fact that improving one pilot’s circumstances could possibly jeopardize someone else’s, and will work to minimize those effects. We are also sensitive to the sentiment that making such changes are a poor-man’s retention plan.

    Because some of the concepts (if they are to be successful) are time-sensitive, management has temporarily set aside the ongoing efforts to re-write Section 12 and instead concentrate on the above.

    We invite your input and ideas on what steps Envoy management could take to preserve or improve the quality of life for the many pilots who choose to remain at Envoy, or whether we should even engage in these efforts.

    Please send your feedback to your Status Representatives and be sure to copy myself and Negotiating Chairman Herb Mark at:

    sam.pool@alpa.org
    herbert.mark@alpa.org

    Thank you in advance for your thoughtful and well crafted communications.

    In Unity,
    Sam Pool
    MEC Chairman

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    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    points 1 and 2 serve DFW pilots more than anyone else. I dont recall DFW being closed and they are to benefit.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EnvoyMecOffice View Post
    April 4, 2015

    to discuss ways to mitigate some of the harm being caused by base closures and shifting equipment. This week your negotiators met with management to receive concepts that -- while clearly saving the company time, headcount and money -- also preserves quality of life and pay for our QoL
    In Unity,
    Sam Pool
    MEC Chairman
    Dear Sam, are you feeding them now? Each one of your emails buys into the same ridiculous, alien premise, that the association is somehow obliged to help management after they tore the house down.

    Let me paraphrase, "management closed bases, took away your pay and benefits, treat your contract like it's toilet paper, threatened every one of you with abolition and now they want you sorry sacks of plane flying dick holes to suggest ways to help them handle some of the unpleasant fallout from their actions"

    Did I miss anything?

    Note to Sam, management aren't heroes or stray dogs, please stop worshipping them and please stop feeding them.

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    Displaced pilots? Does this inclued SJU LAX? Or are they just SOL?

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    Why would an "overstaffed" DCE want to go to the bottom of the OFE list? Still sitting reserve but for half the pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    Why would an "overstaffed" DCE want to go to the bottom of the OFE list? Still sitting reserve but for half the pay.
    Even if pay protected, no PIC and deal with pain in the ass captains instead of being the pain in the ass captain.

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    If we're fat on captains, why don't they increase the flow!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by knblt View Post
    Displaced pilots? Does this inclued SJU LAX? Or are they just SOL?
    What about BOS??? This better not be just about MIA and JFK.... Some of us have been screwed due to base closure many more years than those who are about to join the club. Listen up ALPA... If you do not extend these QOL items to all of us, we will have a DFR lawsuit waiting for you. (We should have one anyway against national for allowing PSA to have done what it did.) All of this nonsense needs to stop. Management will do whatever it wants, and our union is just along for the ride; plugging holes in the Swiss cheese canoe just so we can at least make it to the waterfall.

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    April Fools!!! Oh wait... what day is it....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Dear Hebert, Please resign. Thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    Why would an "overstaffed" DCE want to go to the bottom of the OFE list? Still sitting reserve but for half the pay.
    Because they'd

    Keep CA pay
    Get A pass travel
    Get hotels as needed

    They would go to bottom of OFE list and be on RSV which is probably where most are now anyway on the CA side. It would allow current FOs to keep their relative bidding seniority so more guys aren't coming in above them.


    The argument is they can spend money on training cycles, on on pay protecting and making the displacement as painless as possible.
    _______________________________________________

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    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringfellowhawke View Post
    What about BOS??? This better not be just about MIA and JFK.... Some of us have been screwed due to base closure many more years than those who are about to join the club. Listen up ALPA... If you do not extend these QOL items to all of us, we will have a DFR lawsuit waiting for you. (We should have one anyway against national for allowing PSA to have done what it did.) All of this nonsense needs to stop. Management will do whatever it wants, and our union is just along for the ride; plugging holes in the Swiss cheese canoe just so we can at least make it to the waterfall.
    Commuting policy changes are also being discussed; relax
    _______________________________________________

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    Never answered the question Ray.

    commuting policy changes for commuters? Qol changes for those displaced? So does this mean if you were displaced from BOS SJU or LAX you just get more CPs available to you? But if you were displaced from JFK or MIA you get A passes and hotels?

    I know the language is being negotiated but your answer, or non answer, Reads as if you did say SJU BOS and LAX pilots will be treated as Commuters and MIA and JFK will be treated as Displaced. If that happens MIA and JFK pilots will enjoy A passes to work, company hotels, and not risk loss of pay while the other displaced groups may at best just have the opportunity to be allowed to lose more pay without attendance becoming an issue.

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    Lipstick on a pig.

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    Oink Oink

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    Fupm

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    Quote Originally Posted by knblt View Post
    Never answered the question Ray.

    commuting policy changes for commuters? Qol changes for those displaced? So does this mean if you were displaced from BOS SJU or LAX you just get more CPs available to you? But if you were displaced from JFK or MIA you get A passes and hotels?

    I know the language is being negotiated but your answer, or non answer, Reads as if you did say SJU BOS and LAX pilots will be treated as Commuters and MIA and JFK will be treated as Displaced. If that happens MIA and JFK pilots will enjoy A passes to work, company hotels, and not risk loss of pay while the other displaced groups may at best just have the opportunity to be allowed to lose more pay without attendance becoming an issue.
    Fact is while I don't agree with helping the company at all, I have fully come to terms with the fact that Eagle/Envoy is being **** on just as hard as we are. I fully blame everything that has happened on the selfish assholes at AAG who just see the bottom dollar and could give 2 ****s about frontline employees. Does Envoy violate the CBA? Yes, and in my opinion most of the time they have tried to make it right. Envoy is dealt a fixed deck and an enormous amount of pressure and I do commend them for trying to make a few changes. Any change that negatively impacts this group in even the slightest way needs to be shot down.

    That being said, the union is in a tough spot. They're trying to get our feedback on changes that will help 90% and hurt 10%. All employees regardless should have the opportunity at this point to live where they choose and have A1/A3 to and from work as well as hotels. Envoy needs to show productivity in this new USAir world of maniacal management.

    As for the SJU/LAX dudes, they mostly displaced to MIA and NY, in this particular instance they should still be covered as they displaced to now closing bases. For those who have no choice to commute, or those who chose to relocate instead of commute and who aren't in the recently displaced bases I don't see much of a opportunity for gain.

    The only other course of action would be to incorporate everyone on property as being TDY. If we all want a slice of the pie and keep those negatively affected by these changes to be happy that might be the only way.Will that happen? Probably not, A1/A3 + hotels is huge, and if there can be a flat rate per diem increase where maybe all pilots get an extra 200-300 hours of perdiem it might help to those who feel left out by these changes.

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    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knblt View Post
    Never answered the question Ray.

    commuting policy changes for commuters? Qol changes for those displaced? So does this mean if you were displaced from BOS SJU or LAX you just get more CPs available to you? But if you were displaced from JFK or MIA you get A passes and hotels?

    I know the language is being negotiated but your answer, or non answer, Reads as if you did say SJU BOS and LAX pilots will be treated as Commuters and MIA and JFK will be treated as Displaced. If that happens MIA and JFK pilots will enjoy A passes to work, company hotels, and not risk loss of pay while the other displaced groups may at best just have the opportunity to be allowed to lose more pay without attendance becoming an issue.


    You're confusing base displacement with seat displacement. Two different things.
    A displacement LOA (seat) and commuting LOA (base) are also different
    _______________________________________________

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    Instead of negotiating these small band-aid items, start demanding items that will really bring a change here. We are only negotiating for things that are helping the company in areas they need help in.

    What are we doing about the clear drop to subpar hotels throughout the system we've seen since AIP has come online? What are we doing about the company supplying EFBs for everyone on property? What are we doing about the line values and making adjustments to schedule creation criteria being put in place month after month?

    MOST importantly, why are we not demanding a faster flow to AAG for ENY pilots?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orchard View Post
    Instead of negotiating these small band-aid items, start demanding items that will really bring a change here. We are only negotiating for things that are helping the company in areas they need help in.

    What are we doing about the clear drop to subpar hotels throughout the system we've seen since AIP has come online? What are we doing about the company supplying EFBs for everyone on property? What are we doing about the line values and making adjustments to schedule creation criteria being put in place month after month?

    MOST importantly, why are we not demanding a faster flow to AAG for ENY pilots?

    RSV gets min 12 days off. Minimum days off in a row is 3 for line holders and reserve. Pilots forced out of their domicile because of base closing get $10,000 moving allowance or reimbursement retro to closing kbos. Flow is minimum 25/month unconditionally. Company puts JM events back in HI10. RA is paid 150% for ALL flying not in original bid sequence. No limit to commuter policy.
    Last edited by Kidnapped; 04-05-2015 at 02:42 PM.

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