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Airfoil
04-24-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: 14 CFR 117.21 – Reserve Status Designation

As all of you are aware, when Section 117 of the Federal Aviation Regulations was introduced, a number of changes occurred in the regulations governing duty and rest times for pilots.

As part of these regulations, long call and short call designations were defined regarding how pilots could be utilized in a reserve status. Recently, some pilots questioned these designations, or how these designations were being communicated to the pilots by the Company.

Envoy remains in full compliance with all applicable regulations. However, to answer questions that have been raised and to avoid any doubt about reserve status designations, this notice constitutes written designation that all pilot reserve activities and schedules are considered “short-call” and are conducted pursuant to the provisions of 14 CFR 117.21.

RE: RAP Notification Following Days Off or Planned Absence

In order to provide the duty free periods required of 14 CFR 117.21 and maintain compliance with the applicable provisions of the CBA, Crew Scheduling will contact reserve pilots during their last duty period before any scheduled days off or planned absence with notification for their next assigned Reserve Availability Period. Pilots may proffer for open time and/or may submit a preference for a different RAP during daily reserve open time proffering.

--------------------------

This should get interesting! My guess is someone said something that got the higher ups attention.

787captain
04-24-2015, 05:03 PM
So does that mean on your last day off their going to assign you 4am rap basically

Flugschlafen
04-24-2015, 05:04 PM
Welp, they said we wouldn't like it, and they were right.

Do we not get to proffer for that day or have they simply said we're getting a 4 am rap unless we elect to proffer for something on our day off?

Royer
04-24-2015, 05:05 PM
Good luck getting people to confirm. Not obligated to answer the phone during a trip

787captain
04-24-2015, 05:06 PM
What if on your last day, you don't agree to be released from rap and wait till your rap expires at 11:59 PM and at midnight you go into days off then they can't call you to confirm your next assignment could you then have a 10 AM rap?

Flugschlafen
04-24-2015, 05:09 PM
You're right, except for the blanket statement contained within this letter that says it's official notification.

Therefore you have officially been notified you will have a RAP on your first day back regardless of what you say or do, and it sounds like they plan to dish out MAs if you choose to ignore that.

What a load.

Captain Slappy
04-24-2015, 05:14 PM
Good luck getting people to confirm. Not obligated to answer the phone during a trip

Sadly, all rsv pilots must check our hi6 hi3 prior to being released. We are fcuked.

Flugschlafen
04-24-2015, 05:16 PM
Yes, but it says "next assignment reserve", it's non-specific.

Layman
04-24-2015, 05:16 PM
Sadly, all rsv pilots must check our hi6 hi3 prior to being released. We are fcuked.

Thought that was the definition of reserve. F****D? Been a while, but I don't remember really enjoying it.

Slim pickens
04-24-2015, 05:27 PM
And here it goes. Here's a chance to build unity. Will our once fearless reps ask for solidarity or will they fold like a cheap suit, yet again? I'm guessing the "fly it and grieve it", "we're very disappointed" "keep up the good work" union email is already in the works.

eaglepilot
04-24-2015, 05:49 PM
We should send in our negotiators.....oh wait.

Cujo665
04-24-2015, 05:53 PM
Sadly, all rsv pilots must check our hi6 hi3 prior to being released. We are fcuked.

No, if you are finishing a multiday trip, you check HI3 only. If you were called off a RAP for a day trip, you check both.

Cujo665
04-24-2015, 05:56 PM
We should send in our negotiators.....oh wait.

What's to negotiate? Send in the lawyers instead.

RIGHTWINGMAN
04-24-2015, 05:57 PM
Now how is that reserve LOA looking?

Flugschlafen
04-24-2015, 06:49 PM
The same as it did before, unfinished with too many gives and no good gains.

SMALLCOCKPIT
04-24-2015, 06:58 PM
RE: 14 CFR 117.21 – Reserve Status Designation

As all of you are aware, when Section 117 of the Federal Aviation Regulations was introduced, a number of changes occurred in the regulations governing duty and rest times for pilots.

As part of these regulations, long call and short call designations were defined regarding how pilots could be utilized in a reserve status. Recently, some pilots questioned these designations, or how these designations were being communicated to the pilots by the Company.

Envoy remains in full compliance with all applicable regulations. However, to answer questions that have been raised and to avoid any doubt about reserve status designations, this notice constitutes written designation that all pilot reserve activities and schedules are considered “short-call” and are conducted pursuant to the provisions of 14 CFR 117.21.

RE: RAP Notification Following Days Off or Planned Absence

In order to provide the duty free periods required of 14 CFR 117.21 and maintain compliance with the applicable provisions of the CBA, Crew Scheduling will contact reserve pilots during their last duty period before any scheduled days off or planned absence with notification for their next assigned Reserve Availability Period. Pilots may proffer for open time and/or may submit a preference for a different RAP during daily reserve open time proffering.

--------------------------

This should get interesting! My guess is someone said something that got the higher ups attention.

What if you prefer but hypothetically forget to comfirm?! Just think about it!!!

Captain Slappy
04-24-2015, 07:14 PM
No, if you are finishing a multiday trip, you check HI3 only. If you were called off a RAP for a day trip, you check both.

We still are required to check our mail once a day. It is inevitable that they have us between rock and hard place.

knblt
04-24-2015, 08:10 PM
This has a huge opening in it to keep the company from having any reserve pilots at all.

If the reserve pilots stick together on this the company may have screwed the pooch on this one.

Airfoil
04-24-2015, 08:14 PM
What if you prefer but hypothetically forget to comfirm?! Just think about it!!!

Thank you. At least someone gets it!

Captain Slappy
04-24-2015, 08:25 PM
This has a huge opening in it to keep the company from having any reserve pilots at all.

If the reserve pilots stick together on this the company may have screwed the pooch on this one.
A strong direction from the union I mean association would be helpful. Yea I know wishful thinking. I would hope that all of us who have been on rsv for years would stick together. Sadly we are pilots we will stab each other in the back ASAP!

BOHICA
04-24-2015, 08:34 PM
Envoy remains in full compliance with all applicable regulations. However, to answer questions that have been raised and to avoid any doubt about reserve status designations, this notice constitutes written designation that all pilot reserve activities and schedules are considered “short-call” and are conducted pursuant to the provisions of 14 CFR 117.21.






(b) Any reserve that meets the definition of airport/standby reserve must be designated as airport/standby reserve.



Since it is now a written designation that all reserves are considered "shot-call", thereby undesignating airport/standby reserve, it would appear we no longer need to come in and sit standby.

NealSpanier
04-24-2015, 08:46 PM
The Company does not have the authority to supersede FARs.

When Scheduling calls, inform them of the following regulations/policies and get this on a recorded line:

CFR Part 117.25 (a): No certificate holder may assign and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period.

Phelan Interpretation from the FAA: It concludes that "requiring a pilot to check a company calendar for flying assignments is a task that is assigned by the certificate holder and thus constitutes duty to purposes of Part 117."

ENY CBA: There is no requirement for a reserve flight crewmember to confirm their next day reserve assignment.

CFR Part 117.21 (a): Unless specifically designated as airport/standby or short-call reserve by the certificate holder, all reserve is considered long-call reserve.

CFR Part 117.25 (e): No certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or flight duty period unless the flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or flight duty period measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10 hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with a minimum of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity.


AND thus, you cannot legally accept any assignment sooner than 10 hours from positive contact with Scheduling when you are required to be "phone available."

Captain Slappy
04-24-2015, 08:56 PM
The Company does not have the authority to supersede FARs.

When Scheduling calls, inform them of the following regulations/policies and get this on a recorded line:

CFR Part 117.25 (a): No certificate holder may assign and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period.

Phelan Interpretation from the FAA: It concludes that "requiring a pilot to check a company calendar for flying assignments is a task that is assigned by the certificate holder and thus constitutes duty to purposes of Part 117."

ENY CBA: There is no requirement for a reserve flight crewmember to confirm their next day reserve assignment.

CFR Part 117.21 (a): Unless specifically designated as airport/standby or short-call reserve by the certificate holder, all reserve is considered long-call reserve.

CFR Part 117.25 (e): No certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or flight duty period unless the flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or flight duty period measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10 hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with a minimum of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity.


AND thus, you cannot legally accept any assignment sooner than 10 hours from positive contact with Scheduling when you are required to be "phone available."

So when I get my missed assignment from this, will I get it removed? I'm having flashbacks to all my MA's from second turnbacks. I give a darn less about the MA's, but the pay loss hurts.

IA DPE
04-24-2015, 09:03 PM
Since when did HI6's become regulatory?

knblt
04-24-2015, 09:25 PM
This was not an HI6 btw

NealSpanier
04-24-2015, 09:30 PM
So when I get my missed assignment from this, will I get it removed? I'm having flashbacks to all my MA's from second turnbacks. I give a darn less about the MA's, but the pay loss hurts.

Do not violate FAR's. You will lose more than pay if you do.

NealSpanier
04-24-2015, 09:31 PM
Also, Short Call has to be a specific Reserve Availability Period. Stating that a pilot is on Short Call for the month doesn't comply with FARs.

Cujo665
04-24-2015, 09:39 PM
So when I get my missed assignment from this, will I get it removed? I'm having flashbacks to all my MA's from second turnbacks. I give a darn less about the MA's, but the pay loss hurts.

I'd ask if this is opinion, or has been approved by legal before acting on it.

NealSpanier
04-24-2015, 10:02 PM
While FAR 117.21(a) states;

(a) Unless specifically designated as airport/standby or short-call reserve by the
certificate holder, all reserve is considered long-call reserve.

We need to further re-search the LAW, not just the FAR and look at the
definitions.

Federal Register/Vol. 77, No. 2/Wednesday, January 4,
2012/Rules and Regulations

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...uty%20Rule.pdf (https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Part117/Part117_General/media/Final%20Flight%20Duty%20Rule.pdf)

"27.
Short-Call Reserve

The NPRM stated that ‘‘short-call reserve’’ means a
period of time in which a flightcrew member does not receive a required rest
period following
notification by the certificate holder to report for a
flight duty period.

NACA said that the only task assigned during
short-call reserve is answering the phone. Otherwise, flightcrew members are
free to conduct their lives as if they were in a rest period. NACA recommended
clarifying the definition by specifying that short-call reserve is not
duty.

NACA, Atlas, and NAA asked the FAA to more clearly distinguish
short- call reserve from airport/standby reserve. Atlas recommended revising the
definition of short-call reserve to mean ‘‘a short, designated period of time
(usually three hours or less), either at home or in a hotel, during which a
flightcrew member is on reserve call-up for an assignment. Because the
flightcrew member has not reported for assignment and rest is available, the
time on short-call reserve is not to be considered part of FDP or duty.’’ NAA
recommended the following revision to the definition to address its concerns:
‘‘Short-call reserve means a period of duty time in which a flightcrew member
does not receive a required rest period following notification by the
certificate holder to report for a flight duty period, but is provided more than
one hour notice of the required reporting time.’’

In
response to the above comments, the FAA notes that the distinctive feature of
short-call reserve is that the flightcrew member on short-call reserve is
assigned a reserve availability period. Accordingly, the definition of
short-call reserve has been amended to clarify that this definition only applies
to a flightcrew member who is assigned to a reserve availability period. As
discussed in the pertinent portions of this preamble, the FAA has removed the
cumulative-duty-period limits from this rule, in part, in response to concerns
raised by commenters about the way that this cumulative limit impacted
short-call reserve."

In the event the pilot is not properly
notified of a RAP, that pilot will be considered Long Call Reserve on his/her
next Reserve Availability Day. Short Call Reserve doesn't apply to a pilot who
doesn't have RAP assignment.

Captain Slappy
04-24-2015, 10:07 PM
Do not violate FAR's. You will lose more than pay if you do.

Neal. Are you personally faced with the scenario of being given a missed assignment over this? I doubt it. Until then keep your mouth shut on recommendations. Or here is another idea. Come out and tell all rsv pilots that this is illegal and don't do it.. And by come out and tell us I mean the union say don't do it.

NealSpanier
04-24-2015, 10:10 PM
Neal. Are you personally faced with the scenario of being given a missed assignment over this? I doubt it. Until then keep your mouth shut on recommendations. Or here is another idea. Come out and tell all rsv pilots that this is illegal and don't do it.. And by come out and tell us I mean the union say don't do it.

Yes, I am on reserve and could be faced with receiving a missed assignment over this. I was on reserve last summer also when this was happening. I think I received 12 missed assignments that all eventually were removed because they were illegally received due to the Company not following the FARs.

I'm not telling you what to do. Feel free to confirm your next day reserve schedule. But you are not required to confirm.

Captain Slappy
04-24-2015, 10:11 PM
April 24, 2015

Fellow Envoy Pilots,

Late today the Company issued two letters to pilots stating the Company’s new position on reserve duty under FAR Part 117. The first letter entitled Reserve Status Designation asserts “all pilot reserve activities and schedules are considered short call.” We have serious concerns over this unilateral designation, which is contrary to our current practice and many recent conversations with management.

Long Call Reserve is recognized as the primary option by the language and intent of FAR 117. To quote FAR 117.21 (a), “Unless specifically designated as airport/standby or short call reserve by the certificate holder, all reserve is considered long call reserve.” Short Call Reserve is defined as “a period of time in which a flightcrew member is assigned to a reserve availability period.” We believe the Company cannot convert Long Call to Short Call in a blanket fashion; rather, such conversions must be specific to individual pilots, dates and times.

Long Call Reserve still exists, because it is an integral part of the law. We believe that the Company’s communication only serves to confuse and frustrate our repeated efforts to resolve this longstanding challenge to both pilots and the schedulers.

The second letter, entitled RAP Notification After Days Off or Planned Absence addresses the Company’s desire to pre-assign RAPs to pilots following days off and establishes an entirely new procedure in an effort to address the Company’s challenges covering early morning flying (by making RAP assignments days in advance). We believe this is not consistent with our contract and established practice.

These letters announce an unfortunate change in Company tactics away from negotiation and cooperation. The exact methods the company will choose to implement the changes remain to be seen. We will be consulting with Part 117 experts internally, at ALPA National and at the FAA in the upcoming days.

The Company states that if you receive a RAP assignment on your last day of duty prior to days off, you have the option of proffering or submitting a preference for a different RAP. If you believe flying has been assigned contrary to our contract, or in violation of your contractual seniority rights, we urge you to file a grievance fact sheet and document the occurrence.

If you disagree with the legality of an assignment, first request to speak with a supervisor. If resolution is not obtained, have the supervisor contact your chief pilot or a supervisory pilot in the chain of command. Crew scheduling is not your supervisor and cannot order you to perform an illegal assignment.

As usual, we must recommend that you perform an assignment if you are ordered by a supervisor to do so, and then promptly seek redress through the grievance process.


I love the term "we believe". What a weak association we have. Simply sad. I can't wait to leave.

Captain Slappy
04-24-2015, 10:12 PM
Yes, I am on reserve and could be faced with receiving a missed assignment over this. I was on reserve last summer also when this was happening. I think I received 12 missed assignments that all eventually were removed because they were illegally received due to the Company not following the FARs.

I'm not telling you what to do. Feel free to confirm your next day reserve schedule. But you are not required to confirm.

Funny none of mine have been removed

NealSpanier
04-24-2015, 10:15 PM
Funny none of mine have been removed

Are you DFW based? I was successful in removing most if not all of the ones for DFW pilots if I was made aware of it and the pilot followed the regulations.

Captain Slappy
04-24-2015, 10:15 PM
I regress. I have learned that petty bickering gets me nowhere. I care but dealing with the incompetence of this whole place is an exercise in futility. I'm giving myself a permanent fishing trip for my own sanity. Pop the slides and get me some beers I'm out..

fo4life
04-24-2015, 11:34 PM
Doesn't this violate

Section 12.b.1
Rap assignments for such pilots will be made by 1700 central time the day prior to each day of reserve availability.

Can they give you your Rap any earlier? Days prior

How are they taking these requirements in consideration days before

Crew Scheduling will assign RAPs in seniority order based on:

a. availability of the RAP
b. coverage requirements
c. FAR legality
d. pilot's preference

Standby4life
04-24-2015, 11:34 PM
May as well hand out MAs now. I won't be participating in this dicktatorship nonsense.

Highflyer1980
04-25-2015, 12:00 AM
Just more bull**** from the ever flowing fountain of AAG. The deck of cards is about to fall. Plea packages sent to FOs. Dropping the short-call hammer. Lack of new hires. Airframes going to competitors. But the flow is GREAT!

erjp145
04-25-2015, 08:30 AM
What are these Plea packages some people are talking about?

knblt
04-25-2015, 09:05 AM
is this considered "self help" by the company? I know if the union gave us a directive to not fly it and grieve it later that in itself would be considered self help.

what happens when the company goes outside the cba and initiates this self help before arbitration or a negotiated solution is agreed upon?

i am not a union guru with all the answers so can someone like Neal or Ray chime in here and give me an idea on if the company can initiate this self help and if they can why can we not do the same?

Pst407405
04-25-2015, 10:15 AM
It's a fold out of the 175 and a letter to FO's from DT explaining why they should stay at Envoy. Discusses pay at AA and retirements. Just a bunch of fluff and crap. As an 8 year FO I won't hang out here, planning on leaving at the first offer I get that isn't a lateral move.

erjp145
04-25-2015, 12:16 PM
Was this sent through mail or what? I never got anything

fo4life
04-25-2015, 12:57 PM
Was this sent through mail or what? I never got anything

Yes, email@aa.com and is now posted on jetnet

erjp145
04-25-2015, 01:21 PM
Hmm it's not in my email and I don't see anything on jetnet? We are talking about this Plea Package correct?

ardvark
04-25-2015, 01:31 PM
Hmm it's not in my email and I don't see anything on jetnet? We are talking about this Plea Package correct?

thats what i thought but it appears they are talking about the new company reserve imposed notification and rap method.

eaglepilot
04-25-2015, 01:33 PM
Hmm it's not in my email and I don't see anything on jetnet? We are talking about this Plea Package correct?

Agreed. Nothing in my email either.

Pst407405
04-25-2015, 01:55 PM
Erj, I'm talking about the plea package. It came regular mail. Big white envelope. That's where all our retention money went.

erjp145
04-25-2015, 01:58 PM
I've heard things about this Plea Package that some guys have gotten but I haven't seen anything.

Pst407405
04-25-2015, 02:04 PM
I'm assuming your an FO? If so, you'll get it soon, or should. I used the letter to wipe my ass with. The fold out is pretty nice though.

ardvark
04-25-2015, 02:06 PM
can someone scan it and post it here?

Pst407405
04-25-2015, 02:34 PM
My CA got one since he was still in training when they went out. I'll see if I can get it from him.

Highflyer1980
04-26-2015, 06:10 PM
635

Highflyer1980
04-26-2015, 06:12 PM
636

ardvark
04-26-2015, 07:14 PM
Are these in management really this stupid, wait i will answer my own question, YES they are.

Kidnapped
04-26-2015, 07:36 PM
Yeesh. That kind of hits my senses with the sound of desperation. Is there any other airline mailing letters to their employees begging them not to leave?

styx
04-26-2015, 08:14 PM
638

Death Dealer
04-26-2015, 09:29 PM
Are these in management really this stupid, wait i will answer my own question, YES they are.

They believe we are that stupid.

Royer
04-26-2015, 09:47 PM
Ooooooooh!!!!!! Swept winglets?!?!? Man, I can't wait to fly that ugly piece of sh!t. GMAFB. Pathetic

NoOtPilot
04-27-2015, 08:44 AM
And Attrition Continue, on our way to 1,500 at a faster rate than planned.

BOHICA
04-27-2015, 10:27 AM
636

I wonder how much time and money they spent on this? Some cheap words speak much less strongly than thier deplorable actions.

Yossarian
04-27-2015, 04:08 PM
Great bullet points.
• 40 shiny planes
• Bonus for signing up your friends (pyramid scheme)
• Flow-thru
• Flow-thru
• Did we mention flow-thru?
• AA's pay scale. Not Envoy's
• AA's 401k. Again not Envoy's

At least there not pretending Envoy is somewhere anyone would want to be. "Just do your time and with good behavior we'll let you go to AA someday. "

Yossarian
04-27-2015, 04:08 PM
They're

Gus82
04-28-2015, 07:41 AM
I wiped my ass with the paper and threw the fold out in the fire pit

EGF
04-28-2015, 01:01 PM
Great bullet points.
• 40 shiny planes
• Bonus for signing up your friends (pyramid scheme)
• Flow-thru
• Flow-thru
• Did we mention flow-thru?
• AA's pay scale. Not Envoy's
• AA's 401k. Again not Envoy's

At least there not pretending Envoy is somewhere anyone would want to be. "Just do your time and with good behavior we'll let you go to AA someday. "

Work with under Dick Wilson, a Tyrannical Dictator.
Have the Company Impose their own CBA at Whim.
Violate the FAR's and get good at filing ASAP's.
Use all of your knowledge of the Fatigue Risk Management.
Pay for your own IPAD, Battery, and Mount.
Commute to one of 7, I mean 2 bases.

Standby4life
05-03-2015, 05:29 PM
What a loser, who is Ric Wilson anyway? Just some random nobody trying to make a name for himself? Nothing but amateur hour around here and with idiots who make erratic and impulsive decisions only shoot themselves in the foot which I'm sure they'll find out soon enough.

Cujo665
05-03-2015, 05:51 PM
They're saying they are having the best transition performance in months.....
Hate him all you want, they see the performance results, not the anger and hatred he's creating.

Slim pickens
05-03-2015, 06:07 PM
With all but 10-15 pilots in each base only getting 11-12 days off a month, why wouldn't they be having a wonderful transition?

Edit: not to mention the union rolling over by telling everyone to fly it and grieve it with the latest contract violations. Bravo union. Keep up that wonderful job you're doing.

BOHICA
05-03-2015, 08:01 PM
It's also been the best weather over transition in months.

Jdflyer
05-03-2015, 08:14 PM
They're saying they are having the best transition performance in months.....
Hate him all you want, they see the performance results, not the anger and hatred he's creating.
It also the first transition with rebasing. Could that be part of the performance increase?

Divine Wind
05-03-2015, 08:21 PM
They're saying they are having the best transition performance in months.....
Hate him all you want, they see the performance results, not the anger and hatred he's creating.

It's all about the money. All accountants know is what the ledger reads each month. If the month ends in the black, it's a good month. If it ends in the red, it's a bad month.

That's all that counts for a corporation. It doesn't matter if it's an airline or a sausage company. Results are all that matter. Management doesn't give a sh*t what goes in the sausage as long as sales are up and the Feds stay out. They don't care if a worker slips and becomes part of the sausage as long as the ledgers end in the black.

mustang
05-04-2015, 05:44 AM
They're saying they are having the best transition performance in months.....
Hate him all you want, they see the performance results, not the anger and hatred he's creating.
Of course they are, because he is violating our contract. Where the F is ALPA???

Divine Wind
05-04-2015, 07:07 AM
Of course they are, because he is violating our contract. Where the F is ALPA???

We are ALPA. Every Envoy pilot. Those who think ALPA is the quivalent of Burger King where you pay your dues and expect to have it your way while doing nothing else don't understand how this works. We choose to band together as a collective bargaining unit. Each MEC is relatively independent; free to act on their own (or not) as long as they abide by ALPA's Constitution and Bylaws. Anyone who thinks Big Brother ALPA will swoop in and save us is wrong. That's not how it works. They support us, but we are the ones who are in charge of our own destiny here. That's true of each and every MEC.

It's very important that we follow our contract and not violate it. We are obligated to give 100% in doing our jobs; that obligation doesn't require 101+% but we are honor-bound to give that 100%, not 99% or less. It's important for every pilot to understand what is required of them to do and what is not.

Flugschlafen
05-04-2015, 07:47 AM
First real transition without weather at a base, bases filled up with MIA displaced crews, close to half the base on reserve in NY. Yes, Wilson can take credit for all that because he elected to violate our CBA.

Sad thing is, management really will. Cause and effect logic has never worked well here.

Cujo665
05-04-2015, 09:07 AM
It also the first transition with rebasing. Could that be part of the performance increase?

not to mention the hundreds of new ground crews they've hired....

nope; NONE of that has anything to do with it at all... it's all because Ric is da man !!

mustang
05-04-2015, 04:26 PM
We are ALPA. Every Envoy pilot. Those who think ALPA is the quivalent of Burger King where you pay your dues and expect to have it your way while doing nothing else don't understand how this works. We choose to band together as a collective bargaining unit. Each MEC is relatively independent; free to act on their own (or not) as long as they abide by ALPA's Constitution and Bylaws. Anyone who thinks Big Brother ALPA will swoop in and save us is wrong. That's not how it works. They support us, but we are the ones who are in charge of our own destiny here. That's true of each and every MEC.

It's very important that we follow our contract and not violate it. We are obligated to give 100% in doing our jobs; that obligation doesn't require 101+% but we are honor-bound to give that 100%, not 99% or less. It's important for every pilot to understand what is required of them to do and what is not.

Yes, actually I do expect to pay my dues and get the legal protection they claim.. If I "follow" the contract, it will cause lost pay due to MA's because we have no help here. Still haven't got everything removed or backpay from last time with reserve turnback BS.

Divine Wind
05-04-2015, 06:30 PM
Yes, actually I do expect to pay my dues and get the legal protection they claim.. If I "follow" the contract, it will cause lost pay due to MA's because we have no help here. Still haven't got everything removed or backpay from last time with reserve turnback BS.

Your choice. A union is only as strong as its membership. If the majority of members only think of themselves in the short-term, it's weak. If the majority look at solidarity and the group over the long-term, it's stronger. Regional airline unions have always been weak because most members want to leave ASAP. I know this, you know this and the company knows this.

As for your particular situation, I don't know the details, so will not judge either way. All I know is that we are better off standing together than apart.

Anshu
05-04-2015, 07:24 PM
We are ALPA.

We suck

EGF
05-05-2015, 11:05 AM
With all but 10-15 pilots in each base only getting 11-12 days off a month, why wouldn't they be having a wonderful transition?

Edit: not to mention the union rolling over by telling everyone to fly it and grieve it with the latest contract violations. Bravo union. Keep up that wonderful job you're doing.

There is no fly it and grieve it issue here. There are several avenues one can take. SK FT MA or play ball. The legality is what's in question. So phone rings at 415. Come sit standby come fly trip. I never received an assignment. I'm still on long call. You confirmed rap 1. No I didn't. Avrs and contact with crew scheduling are the only ways I can confirm. It'd in section 12 of the CBA. OK. MA. No flying grieve the MA and move along. This is an instance where you can actually sit at home and have a grievance that means something. However, there are many who are rolling over and accepting this. The company knew there would. Out of 100 pilots, if 30 show up for rap1. It's 30 more than there would have been. However, with what I've been seeing I'm sure its closer to 80%. So why you can't point fingers at alpa and say they're worthless. All they can do is fight the legal fight and get MAs removed. The line needs to stand up. Choices are yours.

Slim pickens
05-05-2015, 12:07 PM
There is no fly it and grieve it issue here. There are several avenues one can take. SK FT MA or play ball. The legality is what's in question. So phone rings at 415. Come sit standby come fly trip. I never received an assignment. I'm still on long call. You confirmed rap 1. No I didn't. Avrs and contact with crew scheduling are the only ways I can confirm. It'd in section 12 of the CBA. OK. MA. No flying grieve the MA and move along. This is an instance where you can actually sit at home and have a grievance that means something. However, there are many who are rolling over and accepting this. The company knew there would. Out of 100 pilots, if 30 show up for rap1. It's 30 more than there would have been. However, with what I've been seeing I'm sure its closer to 80%. So why you can't point fingers at alpa and say they're worthless. All they can do is fight the legal fight and get MAs removed. The line needs to stand up. Choices are yours.

Then the union needs to say exactly what you've just stated....

EGF
05-05-2015, 01:38 PM
Then the union needs to say exactly what you've just stated....
The union can't tell someone to take a MA. The company would claim illegal job action. There is no 117 violation. As far as the national mediation act and RLA are concerned, everything is handled by arbitrators and lawyers. While you go on and fly. The choice is simple and no one here needs to tell you otherwise. Either you accept what the company does, or fly the contract. I've seen now that the company is just going ahead at any time and putting rap1 as many times over and many days ahead. They got their loa pos that we turned our noses at. Stop accepting their crap. Scheduling gave me a MA in Chicago for the usual. Had a 3 hour sit. They decided to reassign me, however never got a hold of me. The MA in the past have all been removed and this one will too. There are some who answer their phones or take the R1. However anything not in the contract or violation there of is not my problem. The company has walked away from negotiations several times because they couldn't get what they want. Now they are claiming Martial law and I'm surprised how many are accepting it.

ZKK007
05-05-2015, 04:27 PM
Then the union needs to say exactly what you've just stated....
I agree. We need our leaders to lead.

Divine Wind
05-05-2015, 08:01 PM
I agree. We need our leaders to lead.

A union is a bottom up organization. It's only as good as it's membership.

As usual with any political situation, the people we need the most to run are those who are least likely to run and the people we need least to run are the ones most likely to jump into the position.

It's easy to sit in the peanut gallery and throw spitballs. I led for 12 years. Time for others to step up and do their part, right ZKK007?

ZKK007
05-05-2015, 09:25 PM
A union is a bottom up organization. It's only as good as it's membership.

As usual with any political situation, the people we need the most to run are those who are least likely to run and the people we need least to run are the ones most likely to jump into the position.

It's easy to sit in the peanut gallery and throw spitballs. I led for 12 years. Time for others to step up and do their part, right ZKK007?
I'm not sure where you want to go with that post.

I understand that a union is only as strong as it's weakest member. This is my first unionized job and I am definitely not a union expert. Far from it.

All I would like to see is more leadership to band us all together. Right now some people are confirming 0400 RAP and doing what the company wants, while others are playing the game and sticking to the contract by not confirming via AVRS or contact with CS since we are not required to. If we are to fight for our contract, we should all be doing the same thing. Leadership should be pointing us in that direction to unite us. That is all I would like to see.

Divine Wind
05-06-2015, 06:14 AM
We suck

Yes, we do. That's what happens when most union members are more focused upon leaving the union than on strengthening it.

Divine Wind
05-06-2015, 06:20 AM
I'm not sure where you want to go with that post.

I understand that a union is only as strong as it's weakest member. This is my first unionized job and I am definitely not a union expert. Far from it.

All I would like to see is more leadership to band us all together. Right now some people are confirming 0400 RAP and doing what the company wants, while others are playing the game and sticking to the contract by not confirming via AVRS or contact with CS since we are not required to. If we are to fight for our contract, we should all be doing the same thing. Leadership should be pointing us in that direction to unite us. That is all I would like to see.

Union leadership can inform, but they have no authority over members. They can't make members read our contract much less abide by it. The company is quick to make accusations "work action" should any union member suggest others do something such as not answer their phone. Silly, yes, but that's why they have so many f**king lawyers on retainer.

A bit of clarification. A union isn't a chain, so we're not only as strong as our weakest member. We're only as strong or weak as the majority of our members. If most members seek to make this union strong and abide by our contract, it will be stronger than if most members only seek to flow and will sign a 20 year, constantly worsening contract in an effort to hasten their flow to AA.

riel39
05-06-2015, 04:58 PM
There is no fly it and grieve it issue here. There are several avenues one can take. SK FT MA or play ball. The legality is what's in question. So phone rings at 415. Come sit standby come fly trip. I never received an assignment. I'm still on long call. You confirmed rap 1. No I didn't. Avrs and contact with crew scheduling are the only ways I can confirm. It'd in section 12 of the CBA. OK. MA. No flying grieve the MA and move along. This is an instance where you can actually sit at home and have a grievance that means something. However, there are many who are rolling over and accepting this. The company knew there would. Out of 100 pilots, if 30 show up for rap1. It's 30 more than there would have been. However, with what I've been seeing I'm sure its closer to 80%. So why you can't point fingers at alpa and say they're worthless. All they can do is fight the legal fight and get MAs removed. The line needs to stand up. Choices are yours.

This is spot on. I'm on RSV now, & have been for the last 4 years. Everyone on the RSV list should be doing this.

knblt
05-06-2015, 08:54 PM
Where exactly is the language that says contact with crew scheduling or avrs are the only two ways to be confirmed for your next day assignment?

is an HI6 from crew scheduling positive contact?

I don't see in section 12 any such language.

Cujo665
05-07-2015, 06:30 AM
Where exactly is the language that says contact with crew scheduling or avrs are the only two ways to be confirmed for your next day assignment?

is an HI6 from crew scheduling positive contact?

I don't see in section 12 any such language.

How many MA's have historically been issued or upheld when it wasn't crew scheduling, AVRS or a chief pilot ?
Good question for the lawyers; I'll ask later

v1rotate
05-07-2015, 09:47 AM
Can somebody point me where it is written on how many MAs constitutes a letter,termination,etc.?

Slim pickens
05-07-2015, 10:25 AM
Can somebody point me where it is written on how many MAs constitutes a letter,termination,etc.?

Depends on staffing

readybeginn
05-08-2015, 01:15 PM
Can somebody point me where it is written on how many MAs constitutes a letter,termination,etc.?

If they are all for the same or related contractual/FAR issue and are being grieved then you shouldn't be in jeopardy.

Shouldn't.

I have heard of coach and counsels being removed in this scenario.

If the MAs are actually your fault then I have no idea.